Bush is Bad

Divided, we fail

Published on November 21, 2007 By joe-pro-photographer In Politics

In my last political posting, I suggested Bush was one of the worst Presidents in history. My reasoning was straight forward: no matter what your position on the war in Iraq, his handling of the planning up to war, the execution of the war itself, and the poor after-thought about the conflict's aftermath, make him a nominee for Lousy Prez.

So, many more conservative bloggers took me to task on the intelligence leading up to the war. "No," they write, "hind sight is 20/20, and it's easy to see the intelligence was wrong after the fact."

The problem is,from the beginning, Bush forced the intel to fit his agenda. It's not me who says this, it's a chorus of people from both the right and left. David Kay, former head of the Iraq Survey Group, couldn't believe the lack of intel on WMD's when he started looking for WMD's after the conflict began. And although he had no intel, was given a rag-tag group to look for WMDs, he still thought the wMDs probably existed. As he dug into the reports, he understood how everyone was duped.

The Bush Administration relied on Iraqi exhiles to support the WMD beliefs. Some of these folks hadn't been to Iraq since the first Gulf War. Their intel was more than 10 years old. One was later arrested for accepting money from SH himself, under the oil for food program. He had been a regular visitor at the White House.

A leader doesn't take facts and fit them to his agenda. A leader evaluates facts and reacts to the facts. A leader inspires others to come forward and voice their opinion, even when that opinion is different from theirs. A leader evaluates his team, and watches for power hungry people who can't run their department (read: Rumsfeld), a leader works with the minority and incorporates their concerns, where possible, into his agenda. A leader works within the Constitution. A leader unites and inspires.

Bush did none of these. (Though whether he stepped out of the bounds of the Constitution is open to debate). He took a "you're with us or you're against us" approach.

The uniter turned out to be the ultimate divider.

Comments (Page 7)

WebGizmos

on Nov 22, 2007

"Having re-read this thread,...(everything else in between)...how he is a true patriot doing that?

Excactly!

joe-pro-photographer

on Nov 22, 2007

Far as Bush is concerned I don't blame HIM for Iraq since almost everyone was behind him at first(including YOUR Senators and Congressmen). I blame him for having mediocre planning and starting the job without a well prepared exit strategy.

I can't speak to Carter with authority. I haven't researched him enough and my memory remains of the peanut piggy bank I had when I was a kid -- and the count down of hostages on the evening news.

However, I only disagree with the first part of the quoted statement above. My problem is this: he provided the information to the members of congress that shaped their vote. And that info was dead wrong. Read my other threads, they are more detailed. But I posed one basic question: point to me one person who says the intel given to justify the invasion of Iraq was right and well executed. One person. Everyone has backed away from that intel. The problem is, it was those assumptions, presented as facts, that shaped the votes in congress and American public opinion. Because Bush put that forward, he is to blame.

The rest of your comment I agree whole heartedly with

. Truthfully, we probably aren't that far off in our opinions. Thanks for joining in,
M

jamespaulp

on Nov 22, 2007

THERE IS ONE THING I CAN'T TOLERATE AND THAT IS A LIAR!

Hmmm. Have you ever voted?

Dontcha just love it when people throw this at you? As though voting actually makes any difference whatsoever. And if you don't vote you have no say.....total bullshit! I'm so sick and tired of this question being asked all the time...as though it were some kind of badge of honor....just seems so childish.

Wow, that is not what I meant. My point was that if he could not tolerate a liar, he probably would never be able to vote. You vote for less of the evil or less of a liar

joe-pro-photographer

on Nov 22, 2007

What happens on a daily basis that the public is never made aware of isvoluminous. I have seen details of things that if known would keep most people from sleeping at night. There are reasons for this - and it is not to make sure the poll numbers are rising for the party in power at least not at the top.

Thank you, yes. It's the info we know nothing about that makes my skin crawl the most. And your right, no minds are going to be changed here. But one thing: if people can stop and question some of their preexisting assumptions, on both sides, just stop and think about what the "other side" is saying, then perhaps we can find a truth that is in the middle.

Perhaps not. Either way, thanks very much for all your efforts.
M

Jafo

on Nov 22, 2007

Hmmm. Have you ever voted?

I've voted every time there's been an opportunity ....35 years of it since I was 18 ....and the BASTARDS STILL get in...

I have already voted [absentee] for tomorrow's election....happy to know it 'should' be the end of Banzai Bush [John Howard].

Someone said somewhere [don't remember who]...

"Every generation needs its Vietnam".

Philly0381

on Nov 22, 2007

All in all this is an interesting thread. It has brought forth many opinions which is good. The thing is though trying to set blame so that we may feel we know who is responsible for todays problems falls far short of what we should be talking about or be concerned about.

In my reply #73 what I was attempting to convey is that with the current mind set of our Governments and Political leaders we may change the person but we won't change their actions or the outcome.

Jafo makes a reference to "Every generation needs its Vietnam". If the statement was made I'm thinking that possibly it was made thinking of another statement. Mankind or if you like the human race is doomed to make the same mistakes of their fathers, grandfathers and their fathers due solely for their lack of knowledge of history. How many countless wars have taken place in the name of freedom, or the best ever religion. How many in the Middle East alone, carefull you may need a calculator.

Modern days has seen wars in reality over one thing, oil, this will get lots of agruments here. Could you imagine countries going to war over spices!

History holds all the answers to the roads we will travel tomorrow. I leave you with this one plea, teach your children well, they are our hope for the future.

Have a great evening and a better tomorrow.

danielost

on Nov 22, 2007

as though it were some kind of badge of honor....just seems so childish.

it is a badge of honor and it is YOUR DUTY. and if you don't go to the voting both you are voting for the winner.

meaning if you wanted to or didn't want to you voted for bush. thank you

skybright

on Nov 22, 2007

Israeli

I was not bashing the people of Israeli, I am sorry you thought it was personal. I was speaking of politics. I am not a racist in any way shape or form. I also love this site and am proud to be a member of such a fine community with such diverse backgrounds and cultures who can express their own point of view.

Also my grandmother on my mothers side were Jewish...their blood runs in my veins as well

danielost

on Nov 22, 2007

Also my grandmother on my mothers side were Jewis

so was hitler's and stalin was all jew.

100

unclerob

on Nov 22, 2007

I think technology currently exists to replace our dependance on oil

What would that be?

Dude, are you serious?!
Take a second and Google it, this can't be the first place you've heard about alternatives to dependance on oil, the climate crisis, pollution,etc.

Here is a quick list:

1. Walk, Ride Your Bike and Take the Bus
- I've been walking to work since October 1995, obviously this isn't an option for everyone (mass transit can work most of the time), it was an option for me, 30+ min from point A to point B. Where I live we get some decent summer heat and our winters rival some of the coldest anywhere on the planet; I've walked to work in -45 celcius with my laptop bag over my shoulder - it's a walk but my body is better because of it (i'm not getting any younger) and I've reduced my personal carbon emission footprint. More people start thinking green in a similar fashion and it will make a difference.

2. More Fuel Efficient Internal Combustion Engines

3. Hybrids

4. Plug-In Hybrids

5. Electric Vehicles (too bad GM had to kill their version of it)

6. Biodiesel

7. Vegetable Oil (it's not just for salads anymore)

8. Ethanol (we're seeing alot more use of this in Canada these past few years)

9. Cellulosic Ethanol

10. Hydrogen Fuel Cells

11. The Ideal Green Car - look it up, it's a plug in hybrid car with roof top solar that can also make use of Cellulosic Ethanol and BioDiesel

- Plus these are just a few options. I'm sure there are more out there - now if we could only get the government to release some of that ufo technology from area 51 and then we'd be cooking!!!

I try to temper my seriousness with a $hitload of "smart a$$-ness"!

- But as I said before, while there is still trillions of barrels of oil to be sucked out of the earth and sold at a profit, you won't see any of these technologies make real head way in the US or across the entire planet for that matter.

101

kingbee

on Nov 22, 2007

stalin was all jew

when it comes to propogating idiocy, lil lost dani just can't help hisself.

102

danielost

on Nov 22, 2007

1) Reasons given to go to war that aren't lies or shades of truth. If the reason is because SH tortures his people, say that. If the reason is because he's in violation of the cease fire, say that. If the reason is he supports terrorists, say that -- and offer hard proof.

they did.

103

danielost

on Nov 22, 2007

stalin was all jew

when it comes to propogating idiocy, lil lost dani just can't help hisself.

so your saying that stalin wasn't a jew. prove it.

104

Chasbo

on Nov 22, 2007

Yeah, I VOTE! I've probably voted more times than most here because of my age. I'm like Snidely. I remember all the times they have stuck it up our buns! I take it very seriously. I felt so cheated when Bush STOLE the election from Al Gore. Had it fixed in Florida by his brother. How nice! Believe it! I spent most of my life in Chicago so I know how that works. Hell jamespaulp, you just raised up another reason to BASH BUSH! It's such an easy thing to do ya know.

Voting doesn't mean anything if ya vote for the wrong people! Maybe that's yer point but that doen't mean you shouldn't vote. It's just like the point that unclerob was making about alternate energy, the right thing is there. You just have to do it. People are easily lead astray. They believe that Mr. Rogers was a Green Beret and killed people. They believe that John Wayne was a real patriot when in fact he was a whoring drunkard. They believe that Dubya is an honest god fearing man from Texas when in fact he's a spoiled Ivy League punk who failed at everything until Karl Rove and Dick Cheney made him their puppet stooge and the American people don't seem to mind that. Ya gotta ask yourself why? Any ideas out there?

105

danielost

on Nov 22, 2007

stalin was all jew

the man stated that he couldn't be anti Jew because his grandmother was a Jew.

i was pointing out that the two most dangers people to the Jews in the 20Th century were both Jews.

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