you forget iran is in the way

Ya know I was not going to touch this thread with a ten foot pole...Chabo, RIGHT ON!!! You nailed it and nailed it good.

Now I don't have to rant...but my son (inlaw not I adopted him as my son); is serving his second tour in Iraq. First time 12 months, this time 15 because Buch extended the tours. His unit is now in the traingle of death. The most dangerous zone in Iraq. He just called me tonight as he does from time to time. They live in tents with cots to sleep on (for 15 month) The place is so dangerous there is no mess tent. Their food is shipped in from helicoptors. Tonight he told me that last night they were being barraged so bad that the missles were like 3 seconds apart. His unit was getting their licks in to. But I knew from the silent words...it was bad.

When he came home after the first tour he could not sleep and when he did he had nightmares. It took momths to get back to a normal life and for what...truely it's OIL OIL OIL My son knows this.

Will this war ever end??? Bush started something that he knew could not or would not end. He is the puppet and does what the master says!!!



And if the spell checker is out tonight and you know who I am talking about   don't even bother me tonight.  

your American Dollars is training and arming Pallistinians Police and the Bush Gov.
is wanting to set up a Pallistinian State in Israel when they have 24 other states to go to . If this state comes comes into being ,it will be another Terror state like Gaza. IS THIS FIGHTING TERRORRISM? Concern Israeli
John

Oh thats another country I take issue with. Our country has been in bed with Israel for a very long time. We are the ones who gave them All the arms they would ever need to fight the Palaistinies and kick the out of their own country because they wanted to be a state.

Does anyone ever talk about having the UN inspectors go check out their nuclearer site. Oh you say they have the BOMB!!! They sure do and we gave it to them!!!

Do you also know that whever any new weapons of any kind are deveoped in the US that Israeli gets it to.

Oh and also we send them millions of dollars each year in aid...

Sad but true....too many needlessly die because twits in suits deem it to be just and send those (they control) in uniform to uphold their views.

Contrary to the arms manufacturers/dealers thriving business reports, there is NO profit in war, just death, destruction and debt....for all that 'localised/self contained' profit, there is a whole world of debt, misery and suffering - a whole raft of people living in dire straits, abject poverty and dreaming of even having a standard of living/quality of life.

Being the World's policemen might sound noble and just to those who ain't "agin us", but the cost in human tragedy far outweighs any good that is seemingly achieved.



Now that's a fucked up way of thinking....thousands upon thousands have to die for an unsuccessful attempt on just one man??....not to mention the billions upon billions of dollars that could otherwise be spent cleaning up your own back yard. And don't try giving me that crap about a humanitarian crisis and delivering the weak from evil, it was motivated by greed and was a gun-ho way of creating a greater humanitarian crisis than previously existed.

I'd say mschleisner said summed up pretty well what millions are thinking, not just in the US, but also here in Australia ....that the gov't is spending too much on war related efforts and not enough on humanitarian crises/issues at home.

The truth is, when it's NOT agenda driven, the governments of the world will unite against real threats to world peace...it is not for the likes of Bush to take it upon themselves to administer self-opinionated brands of justice and devastate the lives of millions....and the sooner this gun mentality is driven from existence the better off this world will be.

Oh, and Bush, if you're get to read this, you no need to wait for history to deliver its verdict, judgement...world condemnation of your actions is already in.

Yep, elections! According to the polls, li'l Johnny is gone, not that I put too much faith in polls/the system....what a lot people say regarding pollies

Apart from one or two businessmen who welcomed strong profits under li'l Johnny's 'Work Choices' legislation, I've not spoken to anyone who likes, much less votes for him, yet he got back in last time, the time before and the....

I'll be doing my bit to get rid of the scumbag...sadly tho, the Labor candidate in my electorate is a bloody idiot at best....and from personal experience, equally prone to promise breaking once he gets his way.

Couldn't agree more. And Bush is a goober of biblical proportions. And for me...this isn't my party is better than your party...as far as I'm concerned there isn't any difference. It just boils down to the man being a goober. But at the same time...I don't see enough people speaking out against him...I really don't think people care as much as they used to or should.

I used to say everything was circling the bowl...now...I think I'm starting to hear the giant sucking sound.

There are more that feel this way than people know. I usually remain silent on such discussions - I will say this though - no matter your position - one should strive to be informed - and perhaps go see for yourself what is going on - or - you can sit behind your safe walls watch the news and rely on the media - and anecdotal second, third or fourth hand information that always sounds the same but is never put to a true test for accuracy.



Do you really think that if we wanted to control the oil in the Middle East we couldn't do so?

I find myself wondering - so oil is always used as something evil and it is really all about profits and that we shouldn't be concerned about who controls it. - I ask that you simply think of this:

We can't go back in time and change how we got into this situation so we have to play with the cards we are dealt. Check your history and see WHO developed the oil fields in the Middle East in the first place - you may not be happy with what you find in light of your argument.

As you sit down to eat today - look at the food you and perhaps your family are about to eat. No oil - no food, don't think so? How did the feed and seeds get to the farms? What did the equipment used to farm run on? Think natural gas, wind and solar power will replace oil? How do you think the equipment and materials to maintain the infrastructure for these things is transported?

Have the oil supplies shut off in the middle east - a stated goal of our enemies - and see who the first people are that demand the United States take "whatever action" that is required to secure our strategic needs?

Oil stops flowing - no heat, no food, no medical supplies, on and on... Do you agree? Will you allow yourself to think about it?

If you feel so strongly about your position get a plane ticket and go see what is going on for yourself. Don't want to - why not?

I know this - I am thankful that it is Thanksgiving and I for one am counting my blessings and remembering those that are and have sacrificed so that this discussion can even take place.

- couldn't have said it better myself, did Bush just ask for another $40-60 billion for the iraq budget, I'd love to know how much has been spent in Iraq since this whole mess started.

- And then I would like to know how much has been spent on assisting hurricane Katrina victims who will likely be living out the rest of their lives in fema camps.

This is one thing that really stands out as an oddity with the Bush (league) administration. No hesitation in spending crazy amounts of money in Iraq but a real hesitation in assisting US citizens on US soil after an event like Katrina which could have been even worse (the truth is Katrina only really passed by the affected area, didn't go through it, the devastation caused by this hurricane is only a fraction of what it could have been had it hit it's mark). Why doesn't anyone else question this? I don't even say this as an american citizen, heck I'm canadian - We saw news reports from foreign news agencies in Canada before we saw anything reported from US news sources - why the delay in response? I wasn't the only one questioning this, it was part of the overall news at the time, why the delay in assistance, why was the foreign press getting on site quicker than local press? But if you notice the situation regarding the Iraq war, the US delivered a quick response, considering the size & complexity of planning required to coordinate war efforts in Iraq, the US response was quick.

Bush didn't even mention anything about the devastation caused by Katrina in his State of the Union Address in January 2006. I guess the mindset is out of sight, out of mind - maybe if I don't mention it, people will forget about it. And don't get me started about how the bush administration says that building the new orleans levees to federal standard (whatever that means, probably a low-end band-aid type approach) will cost too much money and they don't have the money for that type of project (10 billion) but he never has any problems finding the required money/asking for crazy money for his continued efforts in Iraq. Why doesn't anyone question this? Don't poor, poverty stricken people in the U.S. have a right to live and be protected by their country's government as much as/or more than the people of Iraq have that right to taken care of & protected by the U.S. government?

The U.S. is lucky that presidents can only serve 2 terms, I think it would be a nightmare for the entire country if that man continued to function as president.

And don't get me started on 9/11, I have too many opinions & ideas on what caused that and how it led to the current mess in Iraq.

It's not just about the goddam oil! It may be a factor, but not it's necessarily the primary one. More likely it's strategic positioning; the build up/growth of a power base; a power play/display just to show "WE CAN if we damn well want to"...and most certainly it's political bullshit to hoodwink the public into believing it is other than what it really is.

Much like the schoolyard bully stamps his authority, for Bush it's a show of strength to deter weaker elements from mounting challenges/arguments....and essentially, Bush is just a glorified school bully with a penchant for power and violence. Sadly, a few hundred years of political/social indoctrination has too many thinking Bush is a hero, rather than the warmongering thug he is.



I don't need to step into a war zone to know of needless bloodshed, horror and misery. My compassion for my fellow man is more than enough to know of the abysmal violence and atrocities against mankind. It's about mothers and fathers losing sons and daughters, wives and children losing husbands and fathers, about society losing too many good people....and I have seen the pain and misery of that first-hand, no thanks to a stroke of the President's/Prime Minister's pen.

No, I've never stood on a war-zone, thank God, but I stood in the ruins of some bombed out homes of WWII when I was a kid in England. There were no bodies during the late 50's early 60's, but there was always an icy cold chill going down my spine because I actually knew survivors who were horrifically scarred/disfigured - survivors who lost their whole family to a bomb that ripped their home apart. Standing in those ruins was very much a wake up to the horrors of war, particularly when my own father was bombed out twice during WWII and bore a scar where his 14 year old chest was ripped open by shrapnel.

Yep, that's how it was, the damage so widespread and complete, the ruins of a conflict that ended in 1945 were very much evident during the 50's and 60's. I don't know if there still any, having not been there for 37 years, but I feel it's one of the major factors that still influences Britons against war.

The US has never seen such widespread damage on its home soil, which is why presidents are still able to send sons and daughters, husbands and fathers to war....why US public opinion isn't more vocal against presidential pen-strokes sending loved ones to die or be permanently maimed.

Oh, and there's a huge difference between showing support for the troops who are merely carrying out politicians orders, and support for the warmongering arsehole(s) who send them there. Troops are cannon fodder for gutless heroes who sit in high places.... better they're at home with their families, don't you think!

when are you people going to wake up? All of your minds have been loaded so full of garbage by the media and by liberal college professors and whoever else might think it's the "in" thing to bash our president. George Bush did what needed to be done. Terrorists kill, we needed to stop them. And if anyone thinks Sadam didn't have WMD's they are mistaken. The problem was that the media broadcasted to the world that we were coming for them, and they got rid of them long before we had a chance to find them. Bush is doing one thing, trying to liberate humanity from murderers who WILL NOT STOP, and are not going to listen to peaceful negotiations. I will support ANY president who is simply trying to save humankind from evil.

And a side note... about the money going to Katrina victims... there is PLENTY of it. It is being mishandled by local governments. It's not that it isn't there... trust me.

actually, bush is a terrible president and carter, after all these years, is remembered as a man of integrity and honor. yes, the country went thru an oil embargo during carter's term but that can't be laid at his feet. yes, the hostages in iran were held for over a year during carter's term but how can carter be blamed for that episode in american history? also, quite a few of the things reagan took credit for during his first term started under carter, especially in the military field (cruise missiles, bombers, tanks). i admit i voted for reagan the first time but i'm ashamed of it. i've never voted for george w. i did vote for his dad, tho (the first time). altho his dad only had one term, he did much more for the people and the country than dubya has in 7 years. his dad didn't try to take over iraq for good reason.....there was no exit plan. obviously, dubya hasn't one, either.

 

and john, if you really do support bush and his administration no matter what they do, that's one strike against you, my friend.

I'm not in the mood to discuss this topic. I was just wondering why it is still in the Personal Computer area...

I'm asking the same question. I can't seem to get it moved. Frankly, it's kinda nice, I've read some opinions from others who don't normally respond to this sort of thing. But it was an error on my part, and anyone who can tell me how to move the whole thing over to Politics or Current Affairs (where I had posted it) please do.

Otherwise, skip it and move to another article, dweeb.

We know from the women scientists that Biological warfare materials were still being produced and worked on.

Actually, we know no such thing. We know women scientist said they new other scientists who may have worked on WMDs. We haven't found any scientists who said the DID work themselves on WMD. No drivers who said they drove the trucks. Tubes thought to be for nuclear weapons turned out to be a red-tape run around to prevent the wrath of SH's brother. Everything you think we know about Iraq has holes the size of swiss cheese. After 1998, there were almost no weapons inspectins in Iraq. When Blix spoke to the UN, he spoke of Iraq's non compliance with inspectors, not on finding WMDs.

No way, Carter comes in at a close second and he was worse than Bush will ever be.

Really? Hmmm.